Interview With Jim Hightower,
Commentator, Populist & Democratic Activist

BART BRODSKY: We used to listen to you on the local ABC radio affiliate out here.

JIM HIGHTOWER: KGO

BB: Yes, KGO. We really miss your regular talk show!

JH: On the visit out there I'm probably going to be on KGO, I think Ronn Owens.

BB: Ronn is a good interviewer, and he's got top ratings. And since we're talking about media, can you comment on the state of corporate media today?

JH: Well, corporate media is atrocious. It is infotainment. It is: avoid the issues, avoid diversity and true dialog, which is what media is supposed to stimulate. And yes, corporate media continues to be drawn even tighter around itself, with more and more control of mass media outlets. But, on a brighter note, we have tremendous progressive media, any one bit of which is relatively small. And I include your own magazine, the community radio stations, the independent weeklies, the newsletters such as my own, The Hightower Lowdown, of course, the internet, the blogs and the great public interest websites....

BB: Do you do much with Air America and Democracy Now?

JH: Yes. I think the world of Amy Goodman. And I just came back from the Air America cruise, which was a fundraising thing that they did, which was actually quite enjoyable. Not so much the cruise part, but the discussions with the people. They were very energized, they had a sold-out bunch. And Mark Green's doing a terrific job of trying to revitalize Air America.

BB: Would you want to do a regular talk show again?

JH: No. I do daily radio commentaries on KPFA and KALW.

BB: Yes, I hear little two-minute blasts of humor and activism mixed together! You're soft-spoken and humorous, and you also know how to get in the digs, but not in a really nasty way.

JH: Humor is really key, I think. Progressives generally—we have surfeit of sincerity, and an abundance of facts and points to make. I see humor as the key that unlocks the mind, lets regular people hear your message.

BB: It certainly lets regular people know that they can participate, too. Now, if memory serves me, way back in the 2000 presidential race you supported Ralph Nader over Gore or Bush. Given eight years of Bush would you like to take that back?

JH: No, not at all. It was the right stand to take at the time. You know, I would like to take Bush back! But it was an important stand, an important campaign that Ralph ran, and so, it is what it was.

BB: Do you think Gore is different now than he was in 2000?

JH: I've known Gore since he was first in the Congress. I just slightly got to know his dad, old man Gore, a real good populist when he was in the Senate, and a real loose guy. And when I first knew Al he was – had a great sense of humor, a commitment to progressive values, right on down the line. But he just stiffened up during his presidential campaigning years and then his vice presidential years. But now that he finally realized, "Well, that's it politically," he turned himself loose.

BB: Do you think it was a case of bad advisors? Democrats start listening to the wrong people when they get—

JH: Yeah, they always get these consultants who haven't won any elections, who think they know what the people think, or which people we should be bothering with. That's been the problem with the Democratic party. It hasn't gone after everybody, it's just tried to say, "Here's this little limited constituency that we can turn out that vote, and that's going to be our focus." And that just narrows our message, shrinks our appeal.

BB: And a lot of the money flows from corporations, too, and they have their agendas. It's hard not to listen when you're getting big bucks thrown at you.

JH: That's the problem with big money politics. That money doesn't merely talk, it shouts.

BB: As of today, we don't know whether we're going to get Obama or Hillary. I know you're leaning toward Obama, but be that as it may, what advice would you give the eventual Democratic nominee, if you were an advisor?

JH: Have the strongest populist message that you possibly can. People from working stiffs to small farmers to environmentalists to anti-war people to young folks to old folks want to know that government and the Democratic party is on their side again.

BB: No Republican-lite!

JH: No. That's a loser.

BB: Gotcha! Now, Bloomberg News recently reported that United Technologies wants to purchase Diebold, the maker of the voting machines that a lot of us suspect might have rigged the last couple of presidential elections. Interestingly, Charlie Black, who works for John McCain, happens to be a lobbyist for United Technologies. Should we be worried?

JH: Of course! United Technologies is one of the major Pentagon contractors, profits off of war, profits off of its campaign contributions and political connections and army of lobbyists. It is what's wrong with the system. And the notion that now it would control voting machines is Kafkaesque.

BB: Don't we really need public control of voting machines?

JH: Total public control of the voting machines AND public financing of our elections.

BB: Here, here! In your newest book, Swim Against the Current, you describe how progressives can exert more influence, and you give lots of examples of real-life, local heroes. Can you just give us a taste of this now?

JH: Well, the point of it is, none of the people we write about are geniuses. None of them are Rockefellers. They are people who simply decided that they wanted to live their own values and define success, not in terms of how much money they have but in terms of satisfaction in the impact that they can have—through their work or through their example or through their religion, whatever.

BB: You gave an example of a couple of people getting together and throwing an annual political event in Wisconsin. They started with no money and now regularly have thousands of people attending.

JH: It's called the Fighting Bob Fest. Every state needs one of these! It's a county fair of politics, literally held on the fair grounds of Baraboo, Wisconsin, the home of the Ringling Brothers Circus. And it's just one of the great, fun, important political events of our country. They do, not only the speeches, they have workshops in which people literally develop an agenda that they then take to the state legislature. They always have great food—beer and brots—and they have wonderful music and spirit. It's an all-day thing, and people bring their families, their kids, and they had more than 7,500 people last year. By the way, that's ten times more than would go to a Democratic Party convention!

BB: (laughs) Jim, what's the key to that? Is it thinking local? Is it just being wild and inventive?

JH: A couple things. One, it's fun. It's not going to be a boring political meeting. And two, it's welcoming. You are asked to participate, rub up against each other. You do a couple of "12 ounce elbow bends," you get loose, you feel good. It's important you develop an agenda with your neighbors, and then carry that forward. It's largely what's missing in politics, and that is the chance for a person to feel that they matter. And something like a festival of politics creates the environment in which they can matter!

BB: Talking about human dignity—now there's a message! Do you have any special message for all your friends and fans in the Bay Area?

JH: Recognize that we're all in this together, that this is an extraordinarily progressive country, much to the opposite that the powers that be, in the media, in politics try to tell us. I cite in my book polling data from traditional polls, Fox News, CNN, Wall Street Journal, and the rest of them, that show, far from being a bunch of middle-of-the-road, don't rock the boat, go along with the Commander-in-Chief corporate ethos, people are rebels and mutts and mavericks. They want big and progressive change.

BB: So we in the Bay Area are more mainstream than we realize?

JH: The notion that because you believe and act on human dignity, equality, fairness, justice sort of issues makes you some sort of un-American, left coast weirdos is nonsense. You're as mainstream as Kansas, which, by the way, Obama carried! People want what we want, and that is those values of fairness and justice and opportunity for all.

BB: I can't think of anyone who's ever said it better, with the possible exception of Thomas Jefferson. Is there anything you'd like to add?

JH: Make sure people know we're going be in San Francisco, Mill Valley, and Berkeley, of course. [In addition to the New Living Expo], we're doing events with Global Exchange, KPFA, Mother Jones.

BB: Carry on! We're really glad you're here!

JH: Same here!

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